Articles & Advice

Zen and the Art of A&R - Round III

An In-Depth Look At A Misunderstood Profession

Officiated and regurgitated by Jem Aswad

The devil's work is never done, and neither is ours. In our ongoing effort to further understanding between artists and the music industry, here is the third installment in our ongoing round-table series - focusing on one of the fastest-changing genres of music in the world: R&B.

As with all editions of "Zen," the intention is to give some insight into the way executives work and think, provide practical advice on how musicians can best present themselves to the music industry, and to hear some perspectives on where the business is going. This article is divided into two sections: the first being a general industry overview, and the second on more practical advice and the participants' backgrounds and war stories.

The web site version of this article is much longer than the one that appears in the print edition of PlayBack

The discussion took place in ASCAP's New York office on May 14th, 1998.

JOJO: Right now, the R&B industry is at a crossroads. You're gonna see a lot of different styles -- R&B has grown so much that the audience is becoming more diverse, and people like Puffy and Erykah Badu can coexist. That's reflected in the sales, and that's reflected in the love that these artists are getting. I think it's a great time for R&B music creatively.

NADINE: I think one of the great things about Erykah she had a successful album without any big-name producers. For the past couple of years urban music has been dominated by producers -- the sound of the producer is sometimes more recognizable than the artist. The Puffys and Babyfaces and Jermaine Dupris will still be strong, but I think radio is opening up a bit to include things that are different. That whole "new retro soul" or whatever scene -- Maxwell, Erykah, D'Angelo. Those acts have strong performance skills and they're more well-rounded, so they're not totally dependent on airplay. So if there's resistance at first because their sound is a bit different, they have the performance skills and the presence to build an audience and eventually force their way onto radio and video.

BILAL: Kids are the most important audience, because they dictate what is going to happen, and kids are a lot more open and receptive right now. They just wanna hear dope records, and they don't care where they come from. A couple of years ago, it was very tunnelvision: if it wasn't coming from a particular zone, if it wasn't gangsta or this producer or that sample, they weren't feelin' it. But that audience has gotten older. Now, with the diversity that's occurring on mix tapes and on stations such as Hot 97 [WQHT in New York], where you get Public Announcement coexisting with Montell Jordan with [Master] P with Puffy with Destiny's Child - the kids just want to be blazed!

JIMMY: So we're getting back to a time where the artist is the main thing?

BILAL: I think it's the song rather than anything. If you don't have a hot single, you're over.

sJOJO: But there's a missing element to that -- what if it's a novelty record? What separates the men from the boys are the people who can make albums. One reason why Puffy has sold so many albums is because he makes the consumer buy past the single. I think that's important, and when you go into the singles game and the chart game, it's not about developing artists that the consumer cares about. Sometimes you have to make tough decisions as a record company. There comes a point where you've gotta put out the single that's gonna make an impact and touch a nerve, rather than the one that's going to get 2800 BDS spins at radio.

JIMMY: You're talking about a developmental approach.

JOJO: That's what we try to do at Def Jam. We try to create culturally relevant artists, artists that you will buy past the single. We like to think of ourselves as a good logo -- like Pepsi, Levis -- you kinda know what you're gonna get when you buy a Def Jam record. And we never cheat the consumer: we always try to give them what they want all the way around the board. So as A&R people we have a responsibility to the artist and the consumer to make a stance and stand for something. When a consumer feels like an artist stands for something, then they get right down with them -- like Mary J. Blige. You know she stands for what she stands for. She's like your cousin that's sad and mad and hurt all the time -- and you buy into that because when you're sad, you can connect to her.

JIMMY: But suppose she came out next year with an album that had all new-name producers -- good songs, but nobody reputable. Would she have the same kind of success? Is she past the producer stage?

JOJO: I think yes, but again, the emphasis is still gonna be on the songs, and people are either gonna love it or not. And then after they'd already bought into it they'd be like "Oh word? Nobody big on here?"

JEM: And who are these new producers?

BILAL: Right. But, if they announced tonight that Puff Daddy's producing her entire next album, the world would accept it almost before they even heard the songs. Puff would still have to blaze them, but that wouldn't really be a concern.

NADINE: But Mary has an advantage that a lot of the newer artists don't: she has an image and an identity, both musically and otherwise -- she matters. Even if she had all no-name producers on her next record, a new Mary album would still be newsworthy. Which is the advantage she has over a lot of singers who are very producer-driven, whose identities have not been as strongly developed above and beyond the creative content of their albums. Mary tours and does different publicity things that showcase her personality, to the point where if, heaven forbid, she put out an album that had no hit songs, it would still sell because people are interested in her. Like Luther Vandross. People don't care who produced his albums or anything -- he's established himself as a vocalist extraordinaire. But the longevity of a lot of these new artists depends on marketing themselves beyond just airplay. They need to be able to perform and have a show that's exciting and do other things that will get people into them. Even extracurricular things like acting and modeling and all that.

JOJO: I like to find what we call "issue" records. Something that's topical, that's relevant, that everybody can identify with.

JIMMY: Like "Sparkle"?

BILAL: Yeah! R. Kelly knows what time it is! He's like, "This is what it's about. Half of you are gonna get on my side, half will be on honey's side, we're gonna talk about this."

BILAL: I'm big on them. I don't wanna hear too many more "I love you, I'm sorry" joints. I'll take a couple of them on an album, 'cause sometimes you come across one that's so good you've just gotta have it. But I want somebody to make a song like "Please Mr. Postman" - now that's a good issue!

BILAL: Going back to the very point I was talking about: it's the joints! Start with a great idea, then a melody, arrangement, words. But then again, there are instances with a special artist, like [Master] P, where the idea and the concept - with P, about being a "No Limit Soldier" and the fact that he puts out not only albums but also films independently -- shine through, even before the songs. So you have times where it works in reverse, but JoJo's absolutely correct: without a strong idea, nobody's gonna care.

JOJO: You sit in your A&R chairor your producer's chair and you'll have ideas 24-7, but you've gotta think, "How far will this idea go?" I've turned away songs, trying to make sure that I've got the right issues or the right situations for my artists. Even Montell Jordan -- that's a perfect example. The worst record in his whole entire career was "This Is How We Do It." I wish he'd never even made it, because it was such a novelty record. Now all people think about is a big tall guy with his hat on backward saying, "This is how we do it."

JIMMY: You think he's still suffering from that?

JOJO: Not as much. Every record he's put out is gold! But it's taken us till now for people to start to say, "Y'know, my man's not that bad!" And I'm happy with a "not that bad," because of where he was! He was what I call "on the edge," which is when an artist might have slipped onto a [career] cliff by getting some wack joints. And people were getting ready to stomp on his fingers so he would fall - but he fixed himself!

JEM: And you forget later that they were on the cliff!

JOJO: Yeah! A real, real music executive will make you forget. You'll say, "Wasn't money wack?" "NAW! He was never wack! He was always HOT! What are you talkin' about?" And you will be like, "Money's hot!" And that's the challenge I'm having with Montell Jordan. I'm really gonna be over the top when they announce him and they don't say something that's an association with "This Is How We Do It."

JEM: So it's almost like you're doing the artist development after he's had a hit -- and in spite of that hit!

JOJO: We don't have the opportunity to develop acts over time anymore - the parent company's looking down and saying "How many hits?" The owners of the company just care about the quick money game. [Note: JoJo's company has gotten a different parent company since this panel was held!]

NADINE: For them, if something's not going to recoup in X amount of time, it's a bad business decision. And we as executives struggle to get that balance - we continue to go after and promote and develop music that we think is culturally relevant, but at the same time, we are aware that at some point in time, this has to be profitable and make good business sense.

JOJO: But sometimes you've just got to do it. Let me tell you how "Let's Ride" happened: just after we'd finished the album, Montell just started singing the melody over this beat we were playing in the car. So I got on the phone and said, "Yo - I need some money." "The album's finished!" "No it's not! We got this song!" So I said, We gonna record this joint anyway - and apologize later.

JEM: That's like [Motown kingpin] Berry Gordy re-recording "Money" in the middle of the night a week after the record had been released - "We didn't play it fast enough!" That re-recorded version is the one the world knows.

JOJO: People don't do that anymore - and I can just imagine what you [to BILAL] go through at such a big corporation, because at least Def Jam we can huddle in a corner and figure out a way to rob Peter to pay Paul. And that's one of the things that's made Def Jam so great, and why it's been around for 15 years -- because at the end of the day, we will do whatever. We will stop a record in mid-motion, we will come in and do a remix, we will shoot the remix video with three dollars -- whatever it takes. And that's a lost art.

NADINE: Because you're dealing with and answering to people who have an interest and an understanding of the culture they're trying to represent, so it's above and beyond just business decisions.

JOJO: Yeah, but independents have the biggest cut of the game right now, and that's making these corporate honchos sick!

JIMMY: Nadine, how much attention are publishers paying to indies?

NADINE: We do a variety of publishing situations, you try to keep a balance. There is some chart-chasing, but we also sign people who have absolutely no track record. It depends on the company, and it depends on the day of the week or the month - there are certain times when I know that I cannot take on something brand-new that has no activity, because I have 12 other things in that same basket. But there's usually room for something that already has some pipeline income associated with it. In publishing, there's a greater profit potential if you sign something early, but you also know that you might not see a profit for three years, if at all, but it's gonna be worth it when it happens. You have to deal creatively with the talent and show them that you're going to help develop them because you share their creative vision. And you have to convince the business people that you understand their business concerns. That's the balancing game.

The discussion continues>>>

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